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Cllr. Jim Ryan Confirms Destruction Of 175 Year Old Great Famine Double Ditch.

The Great Famine Double Ditch that Thurles Elected Councillors
say does not exist.

The following email from Cllr. Mr Jim Ryan was sent to me in the last few days. Same now confirms that, sadly, the Great Famine “Double Ditch” is to be destroyed, to construct an inner relief road to benefit the new Thurles Town centre, being developed at Slievenamon Road. [The former town centre at Liberty Square, Thurles, having been destroyed by Tipperary Co. Council assisted by Thurles Municipal District Councillors].

The Email from Cllr. Mr Jim Ryan, Mill Road, Thurles, sent on March 1st, 12:21pm, is show hereunder.

Dear George
In a follow up to your concerns regarding the removal or closure of the double ditch walkway in Thurles I can now confirm the following as presented to me by Roads Section of Tipperary County Council.

  • The proposed new Thurles Link road from Clongour to the Mill Road will be going through a small section of the double ditch or College Lane walkway on the Mill Road side.
  • The walkway will remain fully accessible with a newly opened access point from the new link road on the Mill Road side after construction.
  • The construction of the new Link Road will require the removal of the existing walled entrance on the Mill Road side along with the removal of a small section of the walkway itself on that same side.
  • The council stated that a full and comprehensive Archeology (Read as Archaeology) and Envirnomental (Read as Environmental) Assessment was carried out as part of the process that highlighted no concerns to the council or An Bord Pleanala
  • The Double Ditch or College Lane walkway will not be closed off to the public or removed once the construction of the new link road is completed. It will however be reduced slightly in length with a new access point on the Mill Road side.

I hope this clarifies some of the issues raised by you.
Yours,
Cllr Jim Ryan
Comhairle Contae Thiobraid Árann
Tipperary County Council
.

The content shown in the above email, to say the very least, is a watered-down version, designed to affect my silence.

One example of this is that Mr Ryan has failed to notice that a further two-lane exit through the double ditch is designed to allow traffic onto the new road, from the new housing estate; see area/map reference indicated between F4 & F3.
A second exit is designed possibly to connect to the rear of the Mary Immaculate College (formerly St. Patrick’s College). See between F6 & F5 on the map immediately published hereunder.
Also on the map hereunder the Double Ditch has been shortened, by almost one half, compared to the cover map on our first video shown above. Same map referred to above is the first map ever recorded of this area in the 1800’s. This is deceit of the first order, by Council officials.

We now learn that none of our Municipal District Councillors can be trusted following the disclosure by Cllr. Ryan.

Tonight, I have replied to Cllr. Jim Ryan, Member of Thurles Municipal District, Council.

Sir,

Thank you for your communication of the 1st instant.
My sincere apologies for failing to respond to your communication earlier.

I am fully aware, since June 3rd, 2019, that it was the intention of Tipperary Co. Council to demolish the Great Famine Double Ditch, latter situated within 500 meters of your principal private residence on the Mill Road, Thurles, Co. Tipperary.

It was to that end, indeed, that I contacted, in November 2019, Ms Rosin O’Grady, (Latter Tipperary Heritage Officer and Creative Ireland Co-ordinator), asking that she contact the National Monument Service, with a view to granting protection to this historic area. I was soon to realise that Ms O’Grady, despite her official title, is not fully independent of her titled duties, governed indeed by Thurles Municipal District Councillors and senior officials within Tipperary Co. Council.

Suffice is to state that Ms Rosin O’Grady has been instructed not to enter into further communication with me or has failed in her required duty as a County Heritage Officer.

You and your Council colleagues and Co. Council officials, including Chief Executive Mr Joseph MacGrath were informed regarding this wanton destruction of our local Thurles history, on May 24th 2020 (almost 10 months ago).

You Sir, including your County Council C.E. Mr Joe MacGrath, together with all elected Thurles Municipal District Councillors, and the Lowry Team, deliberately and with ill will, chose to ignore every communication sent to each and every one of them, while failing to acknowledge or even reply to any and all of my communications.
 
Following my complaint to the Standards in Public Office Commission (SIPO) regarding you and others of your Council colleagues, including TD’s Mr Jackie Cahill and Mr Michael Lowry; you were contacted by Registrar, Mr David Coleman, (Administrative officer, Corporate Services) regarding your failure to maintain proper standards of integrity; conduct, and concern for the public interest. It took you Cllr. Ryan, almost 3 years to inform me of what you knew, refusing to confirm the information which I had already informed you.

You will now please answer for the moment the following two questions:-

(1) Do you support this decision to remove yet another piece of Thurles history, which if properly marketed would benefit, greatly, the community of Thurles.

Note: I am aware that you are a senior, active committee member, with that grouping known as “The International Garden of Remembrance Committee”, (Chairman Mr John Worth), situated at St. Mary’s Graveyard, Church Lane, Thurles.
You annually attend a ceremony in this garden to commemorate “An Gorta Mór – Ireland’s Great Hunger 1845-1849”. Indeed your group unveiled a large headstone of black marble, (latter which in the past I have strongly objected to its introduction, without planning permission), breaching, as it does, government heritage guidelines and regulations.
Are you now going to support the destruction of a real piece of Thurles heritage, which Thurles can use to attract the ever elusive Thurles tourist?

(2) Do you or any other extended member of your family, either in the past or at any time in the future, expect to benefit, through the sale of land, or other advantage, conveniences or possessory rights, which is being now brought to bear, thus aiding the future destruction of the 175 year old Great Famine Double Ditch, at Mill Road, Thurles, Co. Tipperary.


Mr Ryan, you, your council colleagues, local TD’s and Co. Council Officials bring shame on this community and you are observed as no better than delinquent, vandals.

Your answers are of particular interest to me, in relation to steps I intend to take to reverse this outrageous, wilful and destructive decision.

Yours faithfully,
George Willoughby.

I now invite Thurles Chamber of Commerce, Tipperary Tourism, Thurles Tourism groups and the Irish Government, to support the retention of this piece of valuable history.
As a right-of-way Tipperary County Council are obliged to clean up this area and restore, that which they damaged on the watch of Mr Joe MacGrath, CE. Tipperary, Co. Council, in the last 9 years since 2013.

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Thurles Great Famine Double Ditch – Update

Firstly, since we initially raised the issue of the Great Famine Double Ditch, asking the simple question: –

“Will the planned Thurles inner relief road impinge, in a negative way, on the 1846 Thurles ‘Double Ditch’, which has been a right of way and a Mass Path for almost 175 years and which is the property of the people of Thurles?”


Now, to-date, we have not received even one denial or indeed even one admission to our simple question requiring just a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer from any elected national, local or senior official, charged with representing Tipperary.

Councillor Mr Shane Lee has now joined the ranks of the rest of the so called ‘Michael Lowry Team Membership’, since he became aware of the article published by ‘The Irish Mail on Sunday’, last week.

On 29th Nov 2020, @ 21:19 (6 days ago) Mr Shane Lee (Independeent [Lowry Team]) wrote: –

George,
Thank you for your email. I hope all is well with You & Your Family in these very difficult times. I’d like to highlight George in the 2019 Election I was not part of your area in the Local Elections I wasn’t on the Ballot Papers for Thurles area people didn’t vote for me.
Their vote was for the five Councillors that you are aware of in your area and five very good lads well capable guys I may add. My point is Thurles is not my area Roscrea/ Templemore electoral area is my area so for future reference if you might remove me from your mailing list please. I dont like the way you reference highlighting silence as that’s definitely not my form for sure. I work extremely hard in my own area.
I can speak with Councillor Lowry if you wish as that’s the area Micheal covers?


Kindest regards
Cllr. Shane Lee.

We emailed Mr Lee by return stating: –

Mr Lee,
No sir, as a member of Tipperary County Council you represent all of Co. Tipperary.
Proof of your position is that you were involved in passing the 2021 Co. Council budget in Littleton last week, that’s according to Council CEO Mr Joe MacGrath; latter which contained no expenditure cuts or increase in commercial rates for the year ahead.
This involved €34-35m for housing, €59m on roads, €15m on water services and €29.5m on environmental services. It assures an average spend of just over €3.5m per week; only a portion of which will be spent in the Roscrea/ Templemore electoral area.
So you now know that your power is far more reaching, and affects more communities than just your principality of Roscrea.


Your sincerely
George Willoughby
.

Cllr. Shane Lee replied: –
George,
You never answered my question was I on your Ballot Paper?

Shane.

We believe however, we possibly may have convinced Mr Lee that his obligations and commitments to his electorate as a Tipperary County Councillor, extends to the whole of County of Tipperary including Thurles, and not merely to the area of Roscrea/Templemore. (Then again, we may not, but we done our best to explain.)

A Reply from Mr Malcolm Noonan’s Constituency Assistant.
The second reply, following investigative reporter Ms Valerie Handley’s ‘The Irish Mail on Sunday’ article came from Minister Malcolm Noonan’s Constituency Assistant, on behalf of the Minister, and also on 29th November, @ 17:30 (6 days ago)

This email read,
Dear George,
Please excuse Sunday email. I am catching up with a backlog of emails to Minister Noonan’s constituency office.
Can I just confirm with you that you received the autoreply and have resent your email to the Minister’s Departmental office mos@housing.gov.ie ?
The constituency office are not able to respond to correspondence on Departmental matters.
I hope this is helpful.

Kind regards,

Grace Hamilton (Constituency Assistant, on behalf of Malcolm Noonan TD Minister of State for Heritage and Electoral Reform)


My reply to Ms Hamilton was as follows: –

Ms Hamilton,
I have attempted to contact Minister
Mr Noonan TD on four occasions at his ministerial office, but to no avail. I wrote to you again in the hope that you and Mr Noonan might be on speaking terms, and you might forward my correspondence from his constituency office to his Ministerial Departmental office.
Since he does not wish to correspond with me; he might correspond with you and you might relay his findings.

I have also written to Minister Darragh O’Brien on the 15th November last, informing Mr O’Brien regarding the failure by Mr Noonan to investigate and his refusal to communicate, other than auto reply’s; latter which has now forced me to take this matter into the domain of the national media.
Not surprisingly, Minister Darragh O’Brien, has not replied either; not even an auto reply.
Before you use the words ‘Coviy-19 virus pandemic’ as an excuse, which you might in any future correspondence; I am aware that Mr Malcom Noonan attended in Tipperary Town during the height of the pandemic and could have met with me, to briefly discuss this Issue. He chose not to do so, thus failing to protect what should be a national monument.

Yours sincerely,
George Willoughby.

In all, to-date, 16 persons including senior Co. Council officials, 4 Teachtaí Dála, two of which support this present government in Co. Tipperary [namely Michael Lowry and Jackie Cahill], have failed to answer the simple question “Will the planned Thurles inner relief road impinge, in a negative way, on the 1846 Thurles ‘Double Ditch’, which has been a right of way and a Mass Path for almost 175 years and which is the property of the people of Thurles?”

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Tomorrows ‘Irish Mail On Sunday’ Highlights Thurles Great Famine Double Ditch

“A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture, is like a tree without roots”.

Quote by Marcus Mosiah Garvey, (Latter a Jamaican political activist, publisher, journalist, entrepreneur, and orator, greatly influenced by the Irish 1916 rising.)

“The land between the Mill Road and the river to the north and south of the relief road corridor is low laying, criss-crossed by field drains and provides poor grazing.
This area was wet and soft underfoot during my site inspection and it is likely that, at least in part, it was the flood plain for the Suir.”

Quote by Inspector Mr Hugh Mannion (An Bord Pleanála, Ref.: PL79.JP0024), regarding the Development named: Thurles Relief Road, Thurles, County Tipperary.

It is on this River Suir flood plain that Tipperary Co. Council are now building 26 houses, flooding the north side area of the ‘Double Ditch’. See the two images shown hereunder, as impacted earth floods the soggy building site, forcing the builders to run 2 permanent drains into the North side of the Double Ditch, carrying silt and flooding this local historical site.

Builders draining part of the flood plain for the River Suir, are now destroying the Great Famine ‘Double Ditch’, here in Thurles, with the permission of Tipperary Co. Council. Photo: G. Willoughby.

In tomorrow’s Irish Mail on Sunday, investigative journalist, Valerie Hanley, brings national attention to the plight of the Thurles ‘Double Ditch’, as well as the international descendants connected to its rich local history and the concern for its threatened future.

It is not surprising that the story of the Great Famine ‘Double Ditch’ has now garnered the attention of individuals far beyond the town of Thurles. The story of the Knaggs family and their noble efforts during the Great Famine, is indeed a captivating tale forever immortalised by this Thurles Double Ditch walkway here in Thurles, Co. Tipperary.

What is surprising, as highlighted by tomorrows article, is that despite local, national and international pleas for conservation, it remains unclear if local Tipperary councillors and politicians like Mr Michael Lowry and Mr Jackie Cahill, are willing to acknowledge its historic value and attempt to safeguard its future for future generations of Thurles people.

Builders draining part of the flood plain for the River Suir, are now destroying the Great Famine ‘Double Ditch’, here in Thurles, with the permission of Tipperary Co. Council. Photo: G. Willoughby.

Here’s hoping tomorrow’s article in the Irish Mail on Sunday and our ongoing campaign here on Thurles.Info will help to raise more awareness, thus helping to save this Double Ditch as part of our town’s rich historic culture.

To refresh our memories regarding the historic origins of the Double Ditch and this ‘Great Famine Walkway’ see all links shown hereunder: –

May 30th, 2019
http://www.thurles.info/2019/05/30/what-do-we-know-about-the-thurles-knaggs-family/
October 28th, 2019
http://www.thurles.info/2019/10/28/thurles-double-ditch/
May 24th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/05/24/thurles-heritage-in-grave-danger/
August 21st, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/08/21/contemplative-thurles-elected-reps-fail-to-answer-basic-questions/
September 7th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/07/non-productive-tds-councillors-commanding-large-salaries-for-no-work/
September 9th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/09/update-on-failure-by-thurles-councillors-to-reply-to-local-queries/
September 11th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/11/update-on-answers-to-questions-from-elected-thurles-representatives/
September 16th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/16/more-news-on-efforts-to-destroy-thurles-heritage/
September 17th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/17/even-more-news-on-efforts-to-destroy-thurles-heritage-by-tipperary-co-co/
September 20th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/20/some-thurles-elected-councillors-faithless-treacherous-and-deceitful/
September 25th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/25/update-on-destruction-of-thurles-heritage-by-tipperary-co-council/
September 27th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/09/27/thurles-double-ditch-tipperary-county-council-continue-in-their-silence/
October 10th, 2020
http://www.thurles.info/2020/10/10/further-correspondence-in-relation-to-thurles-famine-double-ditch/

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Walk Endangered Thurles Heritage – Great Famine Double Ditch

With our Harvest moon waning and Autumn wind, low temperatures and rain prevailing outside today, let us take a virtual walk on the Great Famine “Double Ditch”, starting from the Mill Road side of Thurles, in Co Tipperary.

Warning, during our simulated walk of this existing location, do watch out for the barbed wire. Same was placed on either side by the Thurles Municipal District’s work force, reducing progress along this right-of-way, to single file only.

Yes, since Thurles Municipal District own the land on either side it is highly unlikely that anyone else came in to fence using barbed wire; ergo, they are aware that the public legal right, established by usage over the last 175 years; to pass along this specific route and Mass path, does truly exist.
This of course remains contrary to the recent nonsensical statement made by Thurles Acting District Manager Ms Janice Gardiner and former Thurles Acting District Manager Mr. Eamon Lonergan.

Let us chat as we walk: (Ignore the “flytipping’, and burnt-out crab apple trees. Most of the fridges, 3 seater couches, washing machines, vacuum cleaners, beer cans, children’s toys and broken sinks etc. remain covered this Autumn courtesy of Mother Nature, in her effort to hide our shame.)

As we begin our walk, remember this Double Ditch was built by a group of men and boys who understood what it was like to watch their families starve and who had, themselves experienced extreme hunger; something no man, woman or child, thankfully, has to endure or experience, unless wilfully, in our Ireland of the 21st century.

For the Thurles paupers of 175 years ago, the only existing social welfare system that existed, was an overcrowded ‘Workhouse’ from which very few would leave in their own lifetime.

What Is A Double Ditch?

A single ditch is a narrow channel dug at the side of a road or in a field. Its purpose is to either hold, drain or carry away flood water.
In Anglo-Saxon, the word ‘dïc’ was pronounced ‘deek’ or ‘deetch’. In digging such a water trench the upcast soil will form into a bank alongside it. This banked soil thus means that the word itself included not just the excavation alone, but also the bank of soil derived from such efforts.
Latter word would later evolve into the English words we more commonly use today, e.g. ‘dyke’ or ‘ditch’.

Now, if we dig two ditches side by side and you will create a double ditch which in turn creates a high platform in the centre, enabling people to cross extremely wet land without wearing waterproof overshoes (Galoshes) or the then worn leather Wellingtons (Latter first invented around in 1817 and the then privilege only of landed gentry and aristocracy.)

In the case of the Thurles Double Ditch, both sides of the raised platform were faced with limestone; which came free from a stone quarry the property of Rev. Dr. Henry Cotton.

On the day that this Thurles Great Famine work project began, we learn from further hand written communication sent to the Trustees appointed for the distribution of Indian Meal, quote: – “In the town of Thurles alone there are at this moment 768 families containing 3364 inhabitants in actual want; of these 739 are old men, women and children, unable to work and who have no one to labour for them; and the remaining 2625 are depending on the daily hire of the sons and heads of the families to the number of 790 able to work and now out of employment”.

The idea of this Thurles “Double Ditch” was to provide work for paupers unemployed and starving.

The following rules for labourers employed to work on this ‘Double Ditch’ were adopted: –

(1) Hours of labour to be from 7.00am to 7.00pm with 2 hours for meals.
(2) Any labourer found to shirk from reasonable and fair work or refusing to follow the directions of his overseer shall forthwith be discharged and not admitted to the works again.
(3) That the persons employed shall be paid every evening.
(4) That in case of a greater number of labourers shall offer themselves, than the funds will enable the committee to pay. A preference shall be given to those who have the largest and most necessitous families”.

It was further agreed that, quote: –

“Henceforth there be two rates of payment; 8 pence and 5 pence, and that no boy under 12 years old be employed. That tickets of the form now agreed on, should be printed to admit labourers to work – those for men in black ink and those for boys in red ink; Ordered that 500 red and 500 black tickets be printed. Families containing 7 members and over and having 2 men over 17 shall, at the discretion of Committee, be entitled to 2 black tickets; Families having a less number shall, if the Committee wish, get 2 tickets, one red and one black”.

On December 4th 1846, we learn that “In workhouse this day 740 (Persons) – House built to contain 700.
Five families were refused admission on Thursday last by the Guardians; in three cases the husband applied with the wife and children stating that he was employed in the public works but that the hire scarcely keeps them alive; in the other 2 cases the wives and children applied without the husbands and stated the hire would not support them. The men offering to support as many of their families as the wages would enable them.”

The Thurles Workhouse

The Thurles Workhouse was built during the period 1841- 1842 to accommodate 700 inmates, on a 6.5 acre site at Castlemeadows, Gortataggart, Racecourse Road, Thurles, Co. Tipperary, (back then known as East New Street).
The finished workhouse building was declared fully fit for the reception of the destitute poor on the 25th April 1842 four years before the Great Famine. First admissions however were not received until November 7th of that same year. The workhouse was demolished completely except for a low wall, 16 years ago, in 2004.

Later, with the loss of the potato crop, beginning in the Autumn of 1845; in 1846 sheds to the rear of the main building, originally designed to house straw (latter to make mattresses for beds) and turf (for the provision of heat), would be converted into a 70 bed Epidemic Typhus, Fever Hospital; latter killer disease spread by body lice.

In a report sent from Thurles to the “British Association for the Relief of Extreme Distress in Ireland and Scotland” and forwarded to Lieutenant Col. Douglas on February 11th 1847 we learn; –
“Of the population of the united parishes of Thurles, 8,000 are on the relief list. The majority obtains very inadequate relief by employment on Public Works. There are about 300 destitute families having no person to work, to whom gratuitous relief must be given; there are other families varying from 10 to 12 having only one member able to work, whose wages 10p a day would not be adequate to the support of two persons at the present famine prices of food. The poor house built to accommodate 700 has now stowed within 940 and there cannot be any more admissions, and groups who cannot be admitted are to be seen shivering in the cold and wet anxiously expecting the fragments of cold stirabout that remains after the inmate pauper meal. We have lived to see the poor sitting at the pauper’s gate among the crumbs that fall from the pauper’s table. We have not had any deaths from actual starvation but numerous deaths have occurred from severe and long continual privation. The weekly average of deaths has increased fivefold.”

Thurles Municipal District Council in conjunction with Tipperary Co. Co. we believe, now wish to eradicate this important history from our midst, instead of using same to attract much needed and currently non-existent tourism.

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Aerial View Of Thurles Great Famine Double Ditch Project

Dublin City Council is investigating the circumstances surrounding the demolition of the former home of a 1916 leader. View RTÉ report HERE
Meanwhile, here in Thurles Co. Tipperary, the scene is one of similar deception by Tipperary Co. Council.

Our readers will be aware of the reply we received from Tipperary County Council officials Ms Janice Gardiner or Mr. Eamon Lonergan, (we are unsure of the actual author – View HERE ) that, quote “Tipperary County Council has reviewed all documentation relating to the planning aspects of the Thurles Inner Relief Road Project and can find no reference to the existence of the feature/path/monument you describe.”

In relation to the word’s “feature” and “path”, we here at Thurles.Info decided to check.
Despite massive expense incurred, we flew a Drone over the area.

Low and behold, as agreed by Google Maps, we discovered the Double Ditch has not moved, and 175 years later, it still exists in exactly the same spot; operating as a Thurles right-of-way and a Mass path, despite the reports by An Bord Pleanala Report (PL79.JP0024); the 2013 EIA Screening Report and the 2013 Archaeological Impact Statement, and so on and so on.

Very soon we will prove without doubt that deceitful or misinformed Tipperary County Council officials and prevaricating elected representatives are attempting, through subterfuge, to destroy valuable Thurles Heritage.

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